2018 Black Friday Playbook

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Nehal: Hi, this is Nehal Kazim and this is Ad Tips for Ads Pros Podcast where we teach entrepreneurs and marketers how to grow their businesses with direct response advertising. Today we have Kurt Bullock from Produce Department. It’s funny because we did an initial interview with Ad Tips for Ad Pros and in the Facebook group you might have seen his case study that he did for a big peaches campaign that he sold on Facebook. Unfortunately, there were some issues releasing that and that’s why we brought Kurt back on and today we’re going to be talking The Black Friday Playbook so if you’re listening to this, especially as it is launched, you’re going to see that there is still enough time to get ready for Black Friday Cyber Monday. The reason we are doing this podcast is that Kurt is really a good friend of mine and instead of just talking about tactics we’re going to talk about what is the full approach when it comes to your Black Friday strategy Cyber Monday strategy and what you’re gonna do leading up to it and what happens after that cool promotion so that you actually have a sustainable business and not business based on promotion. Thanks for coming on, Kurt.

Kurt: Thanks for having me.

Nehal: First of all, if you can explain what is it that you do when it comes to your agency to give some contexts to anyone who doesn’t know you.

Kurt: We just focus on e-commerce stores, actually Shopify specific because we love the platform and we offer some development services as well so we are a marketing agency for e-commerce brands on Shopify platform.

Nehal: Got it. The type of campaigns that you’re running are primarily e-commerce. Initially, when we were talking there were all these different stages of campaigns, when you were running evergreen campaigns there is an approach to that. When you’re doing launches there is an approach and a strategy to that. Today we’re talking about Black Friday. What is your approach to leading up to Black Friday and how do you look to that overall promotion?

Kurt: I think that there may be a little bit of helpful info. It’s just sort of thinking about what changes during Black Friday as opposed to any other week the one we’ve been running some campaigns. One of the biggest things that changes over is the cost of traffic.I’ve already seen my cost of traffic going up so higher, the number of marketers on the platform is exploding and the number of people is not growing at the same rate. We have come up with a strategy to help us reduce our cost and to get the most bang for our buck during Black Friday Cyber Monday and then lead up to the holidays.

Nehal: When Kurt and I were leading up to this podcast, one of the things that came up was how do you actually change your approach to advertising and this is one of the things that’s not relevant just for this promotion. This will change how you approach advertising to your overall business as you’re doing different promotions, product launches depending on how frequently you’re doing those as well as how you’re doing audience building. A lot of businesses aren’t able to operate the same way that they used to because traffic has just gone higher and more expensive including CPM, CPC going down to the CPA. How do you build your assets in order to get ready for Black Friday? If you can talk about why that’s becoming more important, Kurt.

Kurt: We are preparing our audiences, building a list, a retargeting list, engagement list, our email list and Messenger list so that we’ve got all of these sources of traffic that are not a cold lookalike audience. That’s what we are trying to avoid during that week in particular and in some of the weeks running up to that. Right now, we are sort of changing our outlook. We’re doing get a sales as quickly as possible so that the campaigns are paying for themselves. Right now we’re doing a different play. We’ve still got all of our normal campaigns, generating sales, but we’re allocating more of a budget to audience building. For instance, we’re running PPE ads, engagement ads of the top of our funnel just to really grow that engagement audience. When the time comes, we can pull the switch.

Nehal: I know there are different assets that you’re building. I think it’s important to break down what are the three stages of this campaign you were talking about as it comes to Black Friday.

Kurt: I’m looking at it like and sort of pre Black Friday essentially, the week before Thanksgiving is when I start changing things up and then the week of Thanksgiving, Black Friday all the way up to Cyber Monday and giving Tuesday and that’s game time. The sales are over after that and maybe we have some year end sales and that kind of stuff and a lead up to Christmas. Pre, during and post Black Friday as the main event in this case.

Nehal: If you start any of these strategies and if you don’t change your strategy at this stage and you just go to Black Friday, things aren’t going to be very good and what you’re going to end up doing is probably turning off all of your ads that day because traffic is so expensive that day because everyone else is doing the same thing of going to cold advertising.If you are not building any of the audiences right now or doing it with the intention Kurt has, we’re going to break down the exact steps that you can take here and Kurt has been very generous in giving away a PDF from his company and agency on what are the different types of assets that you can build, the promotion schedule and a lot more of what he’s shared. That’s going to be on You can go there and you’ll get the resource that he’s talking about. Thank you for doing that, Kurt, I appreciate that.

Kurt: Sure.

Nehal: As you were talking about different assets, you mentioned a few different things that you can build and we can talk about how to build those assets. You mentioned email lists, but there is a few more. If a person is listening to this is an e-commerce entrepreneur or a store owner and they’re getting ready for this, but they haven’t considered changing their strategy, what assets would you recommend them to be building right now leading up to the Black Friday promotion?

Kurt: One of the ideas when I talked to other Facebook marketers and the e-commerce space in particular is people are just used to their campaigns, using the conversion objectives, opting for purchase or add to cart or something like that, and that’s kind of a default mindset. People kind of get into that rut. Right now we are sort of broadening our horizons here. We are using different objectives, I’ve mentioned PPE objectives which I don’t run very often. Normally,we go with conversions most of the time. We are also using this as a time to test. For some of my clients I’ve got lots of data. Should we be doing lifestyle or product images, should we be using bright colours or muted colours, video, we’ve gone through all of this. That’s something you want to be doing. If you haven’t done this stuff before Black Friday, you don’t want to be testing during the week of Black Friday. It’s not going to go well for you. You want to have some ads already proven and you want to know what type of messaging is going to work. I just want to interject that. I’m also doing testing during this period while I’m building audiences as far as assets, though. Messenger list is one. What we’re doing right now is pretty simple.We are running ads that are using messaging similar to shortcut the line, be the first to know about optimum promotions, we talked about maybe releasing surprise codes and try to get people on our Messenger list.

Nehal: I know the list that you were talking about, everything from Messenger to engagement audiences, custom audiences, video views and email list. From those, the store owners who are already doing that, but not with the intention of actually building it for Black Friday. What’s the difference in the intention? Because I did the same thing, a lot of marketers did the same thing, we want a return on our advertising. Why would I be doing traffic campaigns or PPC campaigns or video views campaigns when I’m trying to make money today?

Kurt: That’s a great question. It’s all about allocation, having a long view. The idea is that we want to capture as much during the Black Friday, that’s a really important quarter for e-commerce stores and businesses of all types, but e-commerce in particular. It’s more about having that you- we’re gonna switch that allocation, right now we’re spending half or maybe 60- 70% of our budget on building these audiences. We are generating sales as we do it so they’re paying for themselves and more, but it’s just a different focus. We experimented with this last year and what I found is that Instead of just running dry in Black Friday and feeling like I almost have to take a loss in order to keep running my campaigns we had a really profitable Black Friday as we switched to big audiences that we have built up and they had to add the benefit of not being cold, engaged with us, watched some videos, been to our websites,this wasn’t the first time they were hearing about us. We are using this time right now in order to build our video view audiences we’ve got video assets. Sometimes they’re slideshows that we need running to talk about the coming Black Friday sale. Those are going in a couple of weeks as we’re getting closer. It’s more about talking about The Long Game, but if we’re talking about the third phase it’s taking those customers that we captured and convert them into real customers of your brand, repeat customers, converting them from just a sale event customer to somebody who’s actually purchasing from you on a regular basis.

Nehal: Yeah, for sure. From all of these assets that you have built Messenger list, engaged people on your actual page, video views and email lists you are potentially collecting buyers. You’re definitely collecting buyers leading up to Black Friday, but again the point isn’t to get the highest return ad spend, highest return on investment in that moment because what Kurt is really saying here is that you have to be patient. This is not an immediate you know what’s my return on the ad spend on the same day, This is actually a 30-day build up from the time that I’m hoping you’re listening to this which is there is a build up to this point where you are about to make a decision and they are trained over years and decades in order to make a buying decision in that very day. What you’re doing here is lining up all these different pieces and assets In advance that’s ideally paying for themselves and you’re getting some of the money back in the same period of time, but the goal is how to build and create that momentum for Black Friday Cyber Monday and then the whole week promotion. Is there anything else people should be thinking about when it comes to the build up part which is the pre Black Friday segment?

Kurt: What I’ve been finding out is that I have to switch the way that I do things even in just generating sales, maintaining the same CPA. I’m doing things using more placements sometimes using auto placements on my retargeting. At least, you might be someone who runs to the Facebook feed all the time. The Facebook feed gets super expensive even now so I’m trying to be careful and to have at least two, three or more placements selected.I’m trying to get out of my… I use a lot of Carousel ads, And trying things like video slides which I don’t do very often, or trying a little bit more graphic design on our images. We use a lifestyle images, maybe product images, graphic design. Essentially, we’re trying to come up with different ways to reach our audiences and especially when you switch to using those engagement video view audiences. It’s not so much about where they are, it’s about getting in front of them. Audience network if it’s a retargeting campaign one of the times it will work. I had a good experience doing that with my retargeting audiences. I’m just sort of switching things and keeping a mobile perspective. It’s funny, I was reading some Facebook stats last week. Just thinking about this and they were saying that fewer and fewer people are owning laptop and desktop computers except at work which is pretty interesting.You have to be thinking about the whole purchase experience from mobile so I’m using a lot of vertical images, vertical videos where normally I would go with square and on Facebook I was always doing horizontal until recently. What didn’t go well could change a lot in your mind between now and the next year. As far as what we are doing with our campaigns, last year after Black Friday during the holidays we continued to rely on our engagement .

Nehal: So, for anyone who’s doing the traditional dimensions for those videos, it might be horizontal 9 by 16, or if it is one to one ratio of the square, is there one you’re seeing better results with?

Kurt: What I’m using right now is, I think, 4 by 5 aspect ratio because it shows on Facebook and Instagram where some of the more vertical shows only on Instagram and Facebook Stories, these will show in regular news feed as well. I’m doing a lot of these right now because they seem to be working really well.

Nehal: Awesome. What I have seen even with 4 by 5, like I have iPhone 7 plus with that, it’s a pretty big screen and it scales on that as well so when you’re scrolling it’s pretty hard not to see the ad. You’re going to see it, it just matters of how good that thumbnail is and if it’s AutoPlay in that scenario and how good those 3 seconds are to catch your attention or get you to stop. When you’re doing those videos, especially if you’re doing audience building with these assets that you’re talking about is there any trend or anything that you’ve seen worked well?

Kurt: What I’m doing is I’m using this as time to cover maybe the first couple of gaps of your funnel depending on how you slice and dice it, but sort of know, like, trust. We’re talking about whose the business is.We’re throwing in components, if there is a social good component to the business, like they don’t have some portion of funnels and including that and talking of that, they manufacture their products in such a way that they are good for the environment or not detrimental to the environment we’re talking about that. We’re trying to share somebody’s things, maybe the social good components sort of like a reason to believe. That’s the theme of some of these videos where we’re doing engagement. It’s a reason to believe and we’re going to come later knocking when it’s Black Friday with some deals for you to check out.

Nehal: For sure, awesome. The main thing that I got out of that is the mindset and intention of what to do from now leading up to Black Friday which is building your assets. There is a handful to focus on and we are getting at least a trickle of customers to pay for advertising and building those assets for close to free if not free and then once you have those you’re getting closer to Black Friday. Is there a sequence in terms of how you like to structure your promotions and just make sure you have some sort of promotional calendar for those holidays?

Kurt: I do have sort of basic structure and it depends on the individual client, but I will go over that really quickly. I think that one of the most important things that you covered just now is just to have the calendar and to make sure that you have assets plan for all these different segments.The way I like to think about it is the week leading up to the Black Friday, that’s the week of Thanksgiving,that’s the time that I would put on a timer that has a countdown to Black Friday. Sometimes we have like dedicated Black Friday landing pages where people can sign up to get alerts that hypes up the deals a little bit. It’s interesting, I was doing research again last week and target has a landing page. If you look at Target Black Friday, and they haven’t structured yet. They’re doing the same thing, collecting information, but they’ve got underneath little circles almost like Instagram stories that talk to all the different product categories and the things to be happening. Anyway, I thought that was an interesting idea, I’m not doing that, but I’m seeing more of that sort of thing. I’m getting off track here. So, I have a timer and you can choose to have some sort of promotion before Black Friday. I talked to different people and different people have different ideas about this.My wife for one has the idea that she hates when people bust out too early, she likes the company which say they take this time to be with your family and we’ll do Black Friday after. But you do what works for you and that was what my wife told me about this as I was talking about that stuff. A couple of businesses shut down on Black Friday last year and that actually gave a lot of buzz for them. Once Black Friday starts I can reset the canes of my timers and I will be doing nightly timers. There is going to be a countdown that goes till the end of the day on Black Friday, Saturday, Sunday.Often times at that point I’ll run ads Messenger, Facebook, in transparency this is the first year that I’m using Messenger at any scale especially for announcing all these Black Friday deals so I’m planning on doing the hey work standing our Black Friday into Cyber Monday announcement. Again the timer resets for the Cyber Monday deals and then in email you’ve probably got a lot of different messages that are going out through the day. With Facebook ads it’s not that granular. Essentially, I’m running the ad that says hey, this is the last day of the promotion.

Nehal: For someone who hasn’t used the promotional calendar before they might be thinking what are my moving parts and how do I actually go about it so this is what we’re going to send to you at and the thing I’ve heard is what are the different days for promotion and from there, there is different messaging and different ways that you’re going to reach those pros and customers through platform. How you’re getting across what you want to get across, what you’re going to post on paid advertising on different placements because there is going to be things that you’re going to do specifically on Facebook in the newsfeed vs writing hand side vs Instagram stories, whatever the case is. If you look at this as a whole picture, what are the big buckets? The big buckets are there is going to be a timer, like Kurt mentioned, so from there you’re getting people hyped up. By the way, this is what we are doing, either on your email or you want to sign up, click here or go to the Messenger and then you have that, but from there now you have 4 buckets. Do you have four segments or was it 5 in terms of leading up to it and then Black Friday?

Kurt: Lead up, Black Friday, then I do black Friday’s ending and then I do Cyber Monday. Cyber Monday is ending typically. I guess that’s 5.

Nehal: If it’s 5, then the different angles and different assets you have built up at this point your Facebook traffic or custom audiences that you’re doing on Facebook or Instagram, there is your email and your Messenger. From managing all of these, have you seen anything to say ok, here is my five segments how do I organise my assets, how do I organise my copy, how do I make sure my links are working. Is there anything that just helps you organise that or is that simply having a big document and double checking everything?

Kurt: That’s the idea, I have a spreadsheet and I make sure that all the pieces are there that there are no big gaps in timing and telling people what’s happening whether the sale is beginning or whether it’s ending or we’re charging in the middle of it. I want to make sure there is continuity there, where do we want to be, if it’s Instagram what are Instagram sizes, if we want to be on Facebook, what is our Facebook size. if we want a video we have to break it down by asset and channel.

Nehal: Something people aren’t considering, yet, when it comes to Messenger campaigns and for some of our clients it’s we are having people who are part time or full time dedicated to just responding to messages depending on how frequent that is, depending on how big your Messenger campaigns are, if you have a live chat on your site, it’s just super important to have all this communication in one place. Just because you’re Media wire and you know your stuff in and out ,the marketing person might not or the owner of the company might not depending on how many people are involved. From an agency standpoint, there is all these parties involved, from people who you are managing versus the actual client. All of this is coming down to communication and making sure that everyone is on the same page because we’ve been in the situation before where we thought that everything is being lined up, everything is good, but there wasn’t enough of that feedback to say I confirmed, I’ve seen this, that exact same length. These are the exact opposite I want to make sure people see, because what happens is that at the end of the day people are messaging you on Facebook or Instagram or whatever the case is, and they’re asking for different offers and there is money sitting in the Messenger and there is no one to claim it. That becomes a huge opportunity and the way to simplify that is just through communication.

Kurt: You don’t want discount codes that don’t work, you don’t want to be selling products that you’ve run out of inventory, things like that. Having those basic channels of communication open with your Media wire and if you’re the media wire with your team.

Nehal: Right. Increasing opportunity, there is so much money that could be made because of all the thinking that you’re already doing in advance, like we’re talking about building these assets and getting ready and then you build all this build up and you’re right there.People are willing to give you money, and it’s completely emotional and irrational on a cool offer that looks good. I know I’m going to have this much money to spend or if I see offers I’m just going to go ahead and buy, and they’re looking for reasons at that point not to. I would send them a message and they didn’t respond or their discount code doesn’t work so that’s when the offer is done. There is a lot of money that can be lost there. Now you have these five segments of Black Friday Cyber Monday, the whole promotion. The dust has settled, what happens after that? Assuming the campaigns went well and then there is the full sense of reality- I am very financially successful, I have money in my bank, everything is great, but then there is a down that comes down from their potential depending on what you do next. How do you make sure that you’re keeping the momentum that you created as a sustainable thing finishing off the year and a new challenge is coming in the first quarter of the following year? Just to finish off the post Black Friday Cyber Monday, how do you keep that momentum?

Kurt: For one thing, as long as we’re talking about teams, I think team debrief is important to talk about what went well and to capture learnings for the next year, because there is a long time stories what went well, what didn’t go well. These things can change a lot between now and the next year. As far as what we’re doing with our campaigns, last year after Black Friday during the holidays we continued to rely on our engagement audiences for much of that time we were running small look alike cold ads, but mostly we were hating our customer lists that either hadn’t purchased or at least had been some amount of time, a couple of weeks. This year we’re going to try more of dub ads, play with those but there are the dynamic audience, dynamic ads for broad audience, that’s what it is.

Nehal: I’ve been seeing them coming in the Facebook groups a lot.

Kurt: Yeah. We’re playing with those as well, I’m going to be running those just to see how they work during the holidays. If they don’t work, I’ll shut them down real fast. During that time, it’s all about activating your customers, I think. A lot of that, in my mind, typically happens in email. Making sure that you get those customers and you’re asking them about the products and you’re kind of giving them that experience- the product’s on the way, great, the product has arrived, how was it, and the other messaging they might need to actually start using your product and become a customer. One interesting thing that a colleague mentioned recently was that he keeps in mind when you’re looking at your CPA that oftentimes people are buying for themselves and other people so you might be getting to customers for the price of one or three customers for the price of one because somebody’s buying for many people. That was an interesting thing to think about in terms of my CPA. It’s all about activation in terms of messaging. At the end of the year,a lot of times we look at New Year like new you messaging, it’s holidays so family messaging, If it shows your product, it shows a bunch of people together outside using your product, that kind of thing, sort of the feelies to help that out. I usually have one last sale at the end of the year like a year end sale and again I’m getting my customer list, my engagement list and my visitor retargeting list.

Nehal: This is very important because what will happen is that from this you will have an expectation on what your return on ad spend is, what your return on investment is, how many sales you should be closing. Obviously, some of those things are going to slow down. For one of the campaigns we’re doing right now it’s a free plus shipping offer that eventually leads to further education, we have a variety of offers from $100 to 50000. The quality of that person who is going to buy all of the follow up offers including Information, in person events and coaching In that specific business model is correlated to how much of the initial products they consume because if they are not consuming the initial product and if they are not implementing any of these, at least get it in relation of some sort of sense of accomplishment from completing that content they are way more likely and prime to continue to consume the rest of your funnel and eventually buying and purchasing more from you. It’s the same concept here. Now you have Black Friday sale, assuming everything goes well from inventory to a bunch of shipping at the right times or a week or two later, they’re actually getting the thing in the worst case, getting the things that they asked for. Now that they’ve got it, this is actually an opportunity to get them to buy something again depending on how quickly you can get something out in their hands..What you’re saying,Kurt, is that once you’re getting a buyer, it’s actually being multiple buyers and depending on your type of product, that’s multiple block buyers or multiples of lifetime value whether it’s coming from that one buyer or from individual buyers.

Kurt: Yeah, absolutely.
Nehal: From your standpoint, once you have this review meeting because I think we really just passed over that especially if you are a larger e-commerce store and this is your core business, you’re going to be running hopefully next year and do another big promotion.Review meetings are so valuable because there are different perceptions of what happened in the promotion. What the owner might think went well versus the marketing person versus the media buyer are usually contradicting at times or they just have different perspectives. What have you seen on your side with that?

Kurt: I definitely experience the different perspectives.When I’m working with a client it’s good to talk about expectations and sort of get this and that conversation. Afterwards I usually create a document where even if the client is not using it, it’s just for me if I’m doing it next year, I take screenshots of my ads that worked well, I take screenshots like notes on my audiences what was the seed audience, if it was lookalike audience, what was all the terms. I take a lot of screenshots and put them in Google Docs so that I have this kind of document on what went down. That’s been really useful for me. I’m opening some of these documents right now that I created last year and I’m happy that I made them. That’s usually what I do, the whole campaign is a sort of a document. Then we do a debriefing with all the different team members to see what went well and what could have been maybe improved upon.

Nehal: Is there any way that you structure that debrief in the sense that there is a pre, Black Friday and post Black Friday from your metrics and how you’re tracking stuff? How much advertising, dollars that you spend and channels, there might be sales numbers, how would you approach that debrief? If you could put something together so that people have some structure.

Kurt: What I have usually done is just gone over our metrics review, we discuss those, some of the metrics that we’re looking at is just the cost per new customer, a return on our ad spend, average order values, how many of our discount codes were used and which ones were there, are we over discounting, did we have to use the 25% or did we get a lift as opposed to the 15% ones. It’s interesting that for some of our campaigns I find that you just need to connect them at that moment they are looking to buy, you just need to put the right steps in front of them and they’ll do it. Sometimes it doesn’t matter if the discount is as deep as you think it needs to be. That depends on your industry and the competition so we look at those things as well. I’m usually running multiple discount codes and I like to track the stats on different discount codes to see what they might tell me. Typically, we run those meetings and they’re usually pretty quick, we’ve got the owners, different team leaders and all these kind to do a review of the stats and then we go around and talk about getting each perspective on what went well, what would you guys like to remember to do next year and what we should be telling ourselves that we should be doing next year that we can improve upon. That provides tons of conversation points.

Nehal: I can imagine. For anyone who is looking to make the most of their Black Friday campaign and it might be their first Black Friday campaign, there are so many different moving parts. If there was one thing you want them to understand, what would be that thing?
Kurt: It’s hard to choose, but I would probably say planning. Making sure that you have a plan, map out that spreadsheet whatever works best for your team because things change. You’re switching from promotion to promotion, resetting timers and all that kind of stuff and I think that’s going to be one of the most important things especially if you are a media buyer doing this on behalf of a team.

Nehal: Got you. That’s probably the least sexy answer you’ve given on this podcast so far. The reality is people want to get sizzle and they want the sexy hack of how to make a bunch of money, but the reality is that you have to do the hard work. The hard work is actually doing the planning and figuring out what the 5 segments of the promotion are, what your offers are and how you’re going to communicate that on different platforms that you want to run, what type of retargeting do you want to do, what are your discount codes and how much. You have to do all these questions and no one else is going to do that for you. Kurt’s answer is suck it up and and get your ducks in a row or you’re going to suffer from the consequences. If you’re listening to this, hopefully you’ll have some time leading up to Black Friday and again some of their resources and everything else that we’ve put together that will be on Thank you so much, Kurt. I appreciate coming on, man.

Kurt: I appreciate it.

Nehal: That was awesome. That was very structured methodology on what the heck to do leading up to it.

Kurt: Good, I’m glad that it worked out. Sometimes I blank out on a video for a second after I gather my thoughts.

Nehal: I do the same thing. If you have a PDF or whatever you want to share, let me know. I put questions before, I’ve realised that most guys don’t know how to do workshops and they don’t know how to setup a debrief or they don’t know how to have planning meetings. Not that we are super, super good, but we are better than most. When we are doing that, we’ve seen the quality of those meetings that we record and we take screenshots, make notes and documents and it really helps from the execution standpoint and most people don’t do that.

Kurt: Yeah, that’s cool. That’s what we’re working on this year, we’re going to try and get all of our clients to do a debriefing session with us. If there is anything I didn’t explain, I would love to implement that.

Nehal: For sure. I think that one of the sexier things that we do is I’ve created this for other agency owners initially and what happened was that this works for people who just didn’t know how to have onboarding conversations. This can work for a variety of things. We’re working on ad scorecard methodology. Most people just focus on the advertising, but in reality it’s what’s your offer, what’s your Avatar, what’s your funnel process, what’s your nurturing. Most people are like ok, I’m doing retargeting of the click, I’m doing retargeting of add to cart, but there is actual like you’re saying retargeting engager’s video view, retargeting on post purchase. Most people don’t do that. When you go through here, there is a list of questions. This will make you come off way smarter than you are. That’s my objective in life, how do I do hard thinking so that I come off way smarter next time. Here is a bunch of questions about offers and here is a bunch of questions about avatars. Then we’re working on Avatar scorecards and things like that. Here is a bunch of questions about offers, what worked in our offer, how do we know, what was our conversion rate on a specific offer. I can send you this, you know majority of this, I imagine.

Kurt: I’d like a copy, though. This looks really well done and there is a lot of awesome questions in there.

Nehal: For sure,man. I worked hard on it, but this is one of the most dynamic documents that just keeps improving and so I wonder if I create something like this for Black Friday and then this could be repurposed to any promotion. It is like a promotion debrief. The structure after is what is the agenda, what is a successful meeting, the decisions that we’ve made, notes, actions. If you go through all of them, it’s too much, way too much to consume. At least, I have some questions from which I want to pick.

Kurt: That’s cool. As far as the document, I’m going to work on this tomorrow to wrap it up. I was thinking I would just probably deliver it as a Google Doc. There are some of the big ideas that we’ve talked about, which audiences to be building and that kind of stuff. I’ll send it to you and you can add or do whatever you want to it as well.

Nehal: That’s perfect. We might repurpose it into a slide so you mentioned Google Docs and I could at least show you one thing that has been helping us a lot in terms of client communication. We weren’t doing this the way that we are now. It’s like reporting deck. It takes some time depending on the client and on what we’re doing.We were sending documents, we were sending KPI sheets and it wasn’t working. The bottom line is we spent this much, we made this much and this is our return on ad spend. Then what’s the status of this campaign, this is more for ongoing campaigns, these things are going well and this is what’s not, specifically we have metrics and what metrics are going well and what are not. Then the next steps for us and next steps for you. Then we just duplicate this sheet over and over and then we have 5 week sheets and then we can go back. With clients stuff you know how it is, some people don’t take responsibility so we’ve been talking about the same things for two weeks- are you going to do it or not, are we going to do it or not, what’s wrong with you, guys? That’s been helping so I’ll lend it to you.

Kurt: I appreciate that. When you’re talking to new clients how do you talk about setting expectations in terms of getting results for them?

Nehal: I don’t really do e-commerce unless they already had momentum or they are super close. I had a call with a guy today, they’re spending $180 a day, they’re getting 400% on ad spend, their agency disappeared and they just don’t message them anymore so they don’t know what to do in terms of scaling because they’re both copywriters and they have no intention of staying in Facebook ads. The conversation was like, we come in, you’re getting 400%. You know you’re not going to stay up 400%.

Kurt: That’s a very good thing to point out.

Nehal: That’s step one because we are taking clients $300 a day 2000 and then in a pretty short period of time when that happens with the results going up and down, they’re still overall pretty happy because the expectation wasn’t that we’re going to get success return at 2000. I asked them what’s more important profitability at the front end or profitability at back end. They had a supplement and with the supplement it’s all about back end profitability, It’s all about LTVS, it’s all about consumption or get them to keep consuming so I don’t care what CPA is. Obviously, I want to be breaking positive. If you’re getting a 4 x that’s phenomenal, but if you’re getting 3 x and if you’re breaking at 2.5, but if you’re getting 3x and you are doing 2000 or 3000 a day that’s a way better conversation to have. What about you?

Kurt: Earlier this year I was still working with some commerce stores so we have to figure out their messaging, their targeting. All of the variables would be there when we are taking them on. I would have these conversations around timelines. I haven’t taken on any new e-commerce stores recently so that’s a lot easier we can at least have some baseline stats to go off of.

Nehal: I rarely take those people on and the ones that we do take on are the biggest pain in the ass.

Kurt: They are. Now that I have a waiting list I’m actually trying to get rid of my remaining service small clients that are causing me the most problems. Even if I get rid of them without getting new clients on, I think I would be ahead. I can pull from this waiting list, I’m starting to improve my client load.

Nehal: It’s just stress, it’s guilt and shame for not executing for something that’s not designed to succeed.

Kurt: I agree.

Nehal: We have a client right now, she hasn’t done anything for two weeks on her funnel, hasn’t provided any assets for 2 weeks and she’s like: ‘’Where are the ads?’’ She didn’t change her landing page so we got to the messaging wrong and she was like: ‘’ I don’t understand why you guys can’t follow the instructions’’. You haven’t sent anything so we’re not behind. Then she lost money because she was targeting the wrong audience for her and then she wants to slow down ad spend, while our management needs 500 she wants to spend 500 on ads. Don’t spend on us, please, do it yourself. It doesn’t make sense.

Kurt: It’s not worth it.

Nehal: I’m changing my business model, I’m going after phones sales teams so essentially it’s glorified affiliate program. What I do you is I know all the numbers in a campaign. What I mean by that is the same way as what you do I know my CPC per ad, add to cart, what CPA need to look like in order for a campaign to be profitable. This is one of our clients for this month, I know all their numbers. For the most people, if they don’t have to do Facebook ads, if they don’t do their funnels, all they do is get five to 20 calls booked on their calendar and you are a God.

Kurt: Would you be doing Facebook ads for them and booking calls and appointments for them or how would that work?

Nehal: What happens is that the funnel is the exact same so people see some sort of a lead magnet and go straight to the webinar. Once we go to the webinar live or replay, all of it is ever green, anyway. From there, there is retargeting sequences, email sequences, Messenger bots as we need Instagram stories all leading back to the application or getting them to consume leads back to the application. From there, they book a call and speak to someone or they don’t. The process is set up the ad, going to the landing page, opting in, going to the webinar, watching the webinar, going to the application page. It’s the exact same every time.

Kurt: You just own a little bit more of the process which probably makes things easier.

Nehal: It does, man, because they don’t take ownership of optimising it.

Kurt: Yeah, it’s true. That’s one thing I hate about e-commerce as well. A client has 40 product pages with their different products and the product pages are all s***. I can either charge them and take on ownership, but how can I really take on ownership of all the product pages? It’s just a difficult situation sometimes.

Nehal: For you, especially, like the click to leads, click to sale ratio, you’re going up like 45% is huge or going down by 0,5% is huge. What we’re going to do, the master plan is if you can look here their cost per applications is $130 so we’re going to sell applications for 150. Some of our clients are at $80, some of them are closer to 130, but all of this goes to our assets.

Kurt: Right on.

Nehal: They’re happy because they don’t do any of the work. They have to be willing to create the videos, they have to be willing to create adjustments to the webinar, they have to be willing to do strategy calls on Avatar and adjustment and provide these numbers and if they don’t, we can’t help them because they’re just negligent. We’re going to do everything else. If it works and when it works then you get 5, 10 calls a day and you want salespeople to handle those. If it works and expectation is I sell you an application for $150, you close and your return on application, your earnings per application are 3-400%.

Kurt: Are you doing set-up cost and stuff or are you purely charging them based on what results come out?

Nehal: What I was thinking I can charge per week, I could charge for application, I could charge per sale. I control the leads, the sale, I control everything including the actual sales people in them showing up and not being losers and training them and it’s too much. I think that the compromise is the app, we’re going to find out. I closed the first deal two days ago and they actually suggested that I get a percentage of the scale. He negotiated for himself and I didn’t even ask for it, to be honest. I’ll give you 10% of the revenue of the sale, you help me fill up this full event and I’ll give you 15%. The average order value is 5000. He already sold 6 of those 20 spots, he has a list of 5000 people, he doesn’t have a funnel. He has just been taking people to an application page. I was like:’’ Man, what are people applying for, how are you getting 20% close rate?’’

Kurt: Right. That’s cool, man. You have to tell me how that all goes as you go deeper into this.It sounds like a good model.

Nehal: It is,I think so. It sounds great I want to see execution wise how it goes. It only works if I have so many offers, an abundance of offers at the back end with people who are willing to be generous so with that free shipping offer, average order value is $40, but our front is 4,99 that people are paying. I ask them:’’Hey, man,you’re in real estate base, what if I were to get your buyers?’’ Everyone has been applying for the 5K program so what if I gave the way to all those people, a USB with 72 hours content, all of that traffic is already paid for. All of that can add up and I work on the strategy for finding better offers. I love doing this kind of stuff so my life becomes a lot simpler and more exciting, I think.

Kurt: Keep me posted, that’s awesome.

Nehal: I will, I will. Let me know when you get the chance to complete the sheet. This will come out on Wednesday next week. It’s going to be intense because I’m committed to getting launched on Monday and then the perpetual traffic podcast is coming on Tuesday and you would come out on Wednesday.

Kurt: Right on. I’ll be working on that tomorrow. If I don’t wrap it up tomorrow, then I’ll have it wrapped up prime by Monday latest.Is that acceptable?

Nehal: That’s perfect. I wouldn’t worry about design stuff, I wouldn’t worry about making it sexy. If you can get your core concepts, that’s perfect.

Kurt: Good, I think I’m 90% there.

Nehal: Awesome, man. I’ve already got your photos ready to go with all your back end stuff.
Kurt: Great. Sounds good.

Nehal: Thank you, man. I’ll speak to you soon.

How Alon Launched A New Offer and Generated $408,000 With 34 Buyers

By | ad, ads, Advertising, advertising campaign, behind-the-campaign, Business, business-growth, case-study, Sales | No Comments

Nehal Kazim: Hi, this is Nehal from “Ad Tips for Ad Pros.” Today we have my good friend Alon Shabo that’s going to come on. We’re gonna be talking about introducing new offers into a market where you already have some sort of list that you’ve been developing, you have a customer list that you’ve been acquiring, and then now you want to provide them a high-ticket offer to [inaudible] attract more value and increase the lifetime value from your overall list. Alon’s going talk about how he did that and how he added $400,000 in revenue from a relatively small list of buyers [inaudible] specifically. Looking forward to it, Alon. Thank you for coming on, man.

Alon Shabo: For sure. I’m excited.

Nehal Kazim: Sweet. If you can tell us what is the offer and what was the end result from the offer that you guys created. Then we can talk about, first of all, how you defined it, how you validated it, and then how you promoted it.

Alon Shabo: Damn, no small talk. I like it.

Nehal Kazim: Not messing around.

Alon Shabo: Let’s get some background so people have context, because I don’t think this is applicable to people selling $7 e-books or something. I work primarily in personal development, a lot of seminars. This specific client had a membership program, probably similar to what you have with your advertising stuff. It was a monthly membership. People paid every month, but people would drop off. The average lifetime value was about three, four months. The problem we were trying to solve is how do we get people to stick. Just based on preliminary discussions, the solution was we need to sell people on a yearly thing.
I actually learned this from Russell Brunson. We had dinner with this specific client. He’s like, “Dude, people don’t want to see their credit card charged every month. That means you have to resell them every month.” It’s much more effective to charge someone 12 grand once when they’re excited versus 1,000 every month. It’s much easier to do it first time and one time. That was the problem we were trying to solve. Should we get into solution, or do you want to talk about more stuff?

Nehal Kazim: Let’s go through that, because there’s a big difference for a lot of people when they’re trying to make even a one-time $1,000 sale. The approach you had was, “We’re just going to go straight to 12K.” With that, is that 12K if they pay upfront, or how does that work?

Alon Shabo: First off to prefix, they’ve already paid money to come to an event. This was a sales letter distributed at a live event, for example. I mean, this kind of offer, you for sure need someone to spend money first just to build that initial trust and to understand that you’re legit and what you give them is good for them. I think it would be quite difficult to convince someone, “Commit to me for a year,” without giving them at least a day of seeing what this is about and what the future may look like.

Nehal Kazim: This is so important for advertisers who are already having momentum in their business. What happens is that majority of advertising campaigns is, “I’m going to spend a dollar. If I can make more than a dollar, I’m super happy.” But there are levels to this. What ends up happening is that if you just have a front-end offer or maybe a secondary offer, there’s still so much money left on the table, because there are people who want to give you more money. If you could talk about even just the psychology of how you approached this when it comes to people wanting to give more because they’ve already invested a little bit, but there wasn’t a high-ticket.

Alon Shabo: Just to prefix what you said about making money on the front-end, that’s incredible, because the e-commerce business I’m involved in right now, we’re losing money on the front-end, but we’re profitable. That’s something to keep in mind as well. A lot of people understand sometimes you can’t profit on the front-end. Anyway, not to get off subject. What was the question again?

Nehal Kazim: Pretty much, there is the approach when it comes to paid advertising, which is, “How do I spend a dollar, make more than a dollar?” That initial transactional mentality only gets you so far as a business owner, because there’s a lot more money to be made after that first purchase, after that first transaction. What was the mindset going into getting more revenue from the existing buyer list?

Alon Shabo: The first purchase is nothing. You don’t have a real business if you don’t have multiple levels and long life cycles and you have a grasp on that. The purpose to solving the problem of how do we get people to stay, why are they leaving after three months, how do we increase this was, why the hell are they here in the first place? We serve people, so we need to figure out how to serve them more. One second. Cut this part out, ’cause my laptop’s being trippy.

Nehal Kazim: That’s all good.

Alon Shabo: Okay, we’re good. We’re in business to serve people, so we figure out what the hell do they want. “They’re here in the first place. What do they love about this?” It’s almost like making your customer a part of your business by really understanding, “How can we make this more valuable for you?” I mean, I have a specific seven questions that I usually do. I don’t want to regurgitate them right here, but I’ll throw a PDF or something after this. You want to understand them. You want to know, “What made you join in the first place?” That’s incredibly insightful. You want to know their biggest doubt about joining. You want to know what they were attempting to solve by enlisting your services. You want to know what they’ve got so far. “How did joining help you overcome that obstacle? What do you like most about this? What’s stopping you from telling your friends?”
With that, you should get enough information if you just have a basic understanding and knowing the biases that are pretty apparent in focus groups and things like that. Maybe read a blog post about how to take a survey properly, because a lot of the time, your customer has a lot of biases. You have to be able to see those and say, “What he really meant by this is this.” You have to have that creativity and foresight to do it successfully.
Nehal Kazim: And have enough experience so you can spot those biases, for sure. Otherwise, you take it at face value.

Alon Shabo: Absolutely. They say the customer’s always right, but I like to say the customer’s full of shit.

Nehal Kazim: That’s a very different approach. If you look at even that process, I think when you say all those questions that you have that you were laying out … we’ll attach a PDF for the people who are listening to find afterwards. With this process of you’re spending money on advertising, whether it’s on Facebook or other channels, you get a customer, and then the goal is, “How do I just get more customers in that same funnel?” What you’re saying is, once you have that customer, are you able to extract information and knowledge or any kind of actionable data that you can use, not only to go back and fix and optimize your cold advertising but also come up with different offers on the backend? How do you know if you’re on the right track when you’re asking those questions?

Alon Shabo: On top of building trust and demonstrating value to your customer, you want to kind of incentivize repeat behavior. It depends on your business model. For example, the e-commerce business I’m involved in right now, we started incentivizing people right off the bat. Immediately after purchase, “Refer your friends. We’ll give you money.” 10 days later, “Leave a review, we’ll give you a discount and we’ll [inaudible]” get into being involved with us and also pushing them to purchase more by incentivizing them. Again, it depends on business models. [inaudible] talk about a certain one, it may be more productive. If you have milestones like customer makes a repeat purchase or customer signs up for a monthly program, how many months are they staying? The more they engage with you, it’s like a relationship. It kind of deepens. You want to form habits with your products.

Nehal Kazim: The offer that you developed and that you were working on is primarily a transformational high-ticket offer?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, you can call it live coaching. That’s basically what it is.

Nehal Kazim: Majority of people who come into that funnel, they see a bunch of education and a bunch of content that eventually they go into a low-ticket product or a high-ticket information product of 1,000 or $2,000 and eventually get to a point where they’re seeing an offer of 5,000 to $25,000.

Alon Shabo: That’s one funnel. We’ve also found it very profitable and more so than the previous value ladder that’s pretty typical. We found it almost more effective to right away gauge the problem and then promise the solution. But it requires good salesmanship and a good sales team and that kind of infrastructure. It’s not really possible through email and content and stuff. It requires hustlers, basically, to take a cold lead Facebook ad and turn them into a thousand a month person and then a month later, turn them into a $12,000 a year customer. We get customers with both, but I think the latter has been more effective, just ’cause it’s a shorter life cycle from lead to customer.

Nehal Kazim: We have clients right now that are going straight from Facebook ad to a webinar funnel and selling a $6,000 program because the pain is so deep and because the solution is so … the gap is so big that it’s pretty obvious that the investment is a no-brainer. For every business or from-

Nehal Kazim: … investment is a no brainer, but for every business or for a lot wider scope of businesses, that’s not always possible. So, assuming that we’re working with an education company or a transformation company where there’s information and coaching involved, how would you go about that first step of defining a potential offer that you can even introduce?

Alon Shabo: Okay. Let’s get creative and actually walk through this. Tell me an example of a business so I can paint a picture for the listeners.

Nehal Kazim: So, I’ll give you example which is I’m one of those people that is in the educational space and then there’s a coaching offer on the backend which is Media Buyer Accelerator, so there’s a bunch of information like this podcast, fast tracks and different smaller information products, but all of it leads to high ticket coaching.

Alon Shabo: Got it. So, your target is media buyer/entrepreneurs who want to use Facebook ads.

Nehal Kazim: Correct.

Alon Shabo: So, that’s always step one is who the hell are we trying to reach? What level are they at? Are you trying to hit up the newbie who wants to launch some ads so he can travel? Does he want to be a consultant? Does he want to build his own business? Getting incredibly specific is a good start and then figuring out what’s the quickest way you can demonstrate value and I think in my experience, the ads that have crushed it are the ones that are just valuable in their own as an advertisement. People read them and they’re like, “Fuck yeah.” Without signing up, without anything. They got value just from reading your stuff. That makes them more curious to see what’s next. What happens if I give this guy money? So, were we talking about just hypothetically starting a funnel for your stuff?

Nehal Kazim: Even for information and coaching programs, if you look at them, the first part is actually defining what is it that I could offer these guys? So, from your standpoint, you’re doing it for this client at that point, how did you start that process? Because you were making an offer to them. So, there’s already momentum in that offer where you were saying we usually charge $1000. Let’s see if we can charge $12,000.

Alon Shabo: Okay yeah. Okay. Got it. I got off track a little bit. So, we surveyed those customers. The client flew me to one of his events and basically my job was to talk to all his customers. I asked him those series of questions. I literally put together a survey and then after I had hundreds of responses from different people and we had an overwhelming thing. It’s like what do people love about this? They love the friendships and brotherhood they develop right? That was more valuable to people than the content [inaudible] and all the million perks that we try to offer to make things Look attractive, nobody really gave a shit. They were like, “These are my friends. I love doing stuff with them.” So, the two things we concluded was okay, these guys like cool experiences and they like the friendship.
So, we created this new tier of membership where it’s like you need to commit to a year if you want to be a part of this. The way we kind of positioned that was this is a brotherhood. We don’t want you to come and dip. Everyone trusts each other. These are deep friendships and we need to know you’re committed. So, that’s the way we structured the offer. It wasn’t like, “Hey, sign up for a year and give us a lot of money.” It was more like we need to know you’re a serious person and you want to be a part of this, so we didn’t really change the offer. We just sold it as a special surprise trip for people who committed to the year. We kind of promoted that, but the main thing was that we created separatism.
It’s like are you seriously invested in this or are you one of those guys that are going to leave after two months? We’re all in it for the long term.

Nehal Kazim: Right. So, when you’re listening and surveying all the people, were there any answers that could potentially take you off track because I know I’ve done these type of surveys and some of them are very seductive and it’s like the siren song where you think that that’s actually what people want, but that’s not the truth. So, how do you make a decision of those are the only two things that mattered and everything else was just a nice to have or cherry on top?

Alon Shabo: So, that requires creativity and foresight and also a little bit of an analytical mind. I think that’s why a good copyright or consultant charge a lot of money because it’s not a thing you can kind of pull out of a book or follow script. It’s more like assumption on human nature and you can be wrong obviously. It’s kind of like being a stock trader almost.

Nehal Kazim: Gotcha. So, at that point, you get all this structure and you’re asking all these questions, but at the end of the day, it’s a guy thing. You know when you have it.

Alon Shabo: A little bit yeah. It’s just a mix of creativity, analytics, foresight, and human nature and your best guess really. I think some of the most successful marketing campaigns of all time are just some guys best gut feeling like, “Fuck it. This will do good.” Beyond all the analytics and research and everything else. That’s always the foundation.

Nehal Kazim: Right. When that happens, you figure out that it’s these two things that they care about so immediately you guys change the offer in terms of just reposition the offer. The actual core offer stayed the exact same.

Alon Shabo: Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Nehal Kazim: Okay.

Alon Shabo: This was a new offer being introduced for the first time.

Nehal Kazim: Okay. So, what did you-

Alon Shabo: [inaudible] upsell.

Nehal Kazim: What did you do differently to actually present the offer because once you’re able to figure out all these other things are cute, they’re nice to have. These two things are what they’re willing to pay for, now what? How did you implement it?

Alon Shabo: We wrote a sales letter. Old school style.

Nehal Kazim: So, what did you change in the sales letter?

Alon Shabo: What did I implement? I made it all about brotherhood. We positioned it as an invite to a special event. So, a good sales letter, it doesn’t read like a pitch. This was positioned as an invite to an event. Any time you are creating some kind of sales letter and it’s salesy, you trigger this alarm in someone’s brain and they get defensive. They’re like, “He’s trying to sell me. What is this guy trying to sell me?” Their brain is trying to just protect them the whole way through. They may buy, but you don’t really want to be up against that. You want it frictionless like, “Oh cool, an invite to an event.” You want it to just kind of glide.
So, yeah. That was the main focus of the sales letter. It was brotherhood event. That’s it. That’s all we talked about. We positioned it as an event invite. Then just in small print at the end it was like, “Oh, by the way this is only available for yearly members. Sign up for your yearly membership below.” We almost made it a no brainer by kind of building the desire for the event and then saying, “Oh, by the way.” In this case it was fucking crushed it. Yeah. It was the first time he presented it was like 75% conversion. Most of the room ended up converting. Similar numbers they run it annually every year now. Similar numbers so it’s held up.

Nehal Kazim: So, to say that brotherhood is important versus actually communicating it, that’s a challenge.

Alon Shabo: Yeah.

Nehal Kazim: So, how do you communicate something intangible like brotherhood?

Alon Shabo: Well, we paint the picture in their mind of what an amazing event they’re going to have and the things they’re going to experience and how they’re going to feel after. One of the biggest appeals that I like was you’ll have something you can talk about for years and years to come. So, you want to paint the picture. You don’t want to convince someone why brotherhood. We already know that these guys value that. If we tried to lecture them on the importance of brotherhood and studies show that men with … No. They’d be like, “What the fuck man? Don’t lecture me on this stuff. I already know.”

Nehal Kazim: Right.

Alon Shabo: So, we pretty much positioned it as a pretty awesome event tapping in to their desire for brotherhood and experiences with their brothers.

Nehal Kazim: Right. So are there any triggers or are there any ways that you are able to call that out because with something like brotherhood, it’s very easy to say it like I’m saying, but to actually get emotional reactions from that it sounds a lot more difficult. Is that the case?

Alon Shabo: I’m just looking. I’m skimming this letter. I haven’t seen it in a while. I don’t know. I think the emotion it solicits is basically excitement and exclusivity. I think part of the reason it was successful is people didn’t want to feel left out because they already had these relationships with all these guys. So I think what it created is if some guys join this higher tier and get separated, these guys are going to get left behind.

Nehal Kazim: Right.

Alon Shabo: It’s kind of preying on some weird stuff a little bit.

Nehal Kazim: But that’s just almost [inaudible]

Alon Shabo: Oh yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Nehal Kazim: You guys create scarcity out of that too. So, that was one of the elements you were mentioning. One it’s invite only and then I’m assuming everyone doesn’t get accepted. So, why do you think that part of it worked?

Alon Shabo: The scarcity?

Nehal Kazim: Yeah.

Alon Shabo: Well, it’s just like any scarcity. Especially in this which is a come to this event. You can get invited. Nobody wants to be left behind. That’s about it. What ended up happening with this offer because obviously we exceeded the scarcity is we ended up just creating more trips which was kind of determined while we were already planning the whole promotion. Like, what happened …

Alon Shabo: … determined while we were already planning the whole promotion. What happens if 75 people join and we say there’s only 25? Well, shit, I guess we gotta make another trip for the new guys.

Nehal Kazim: Right.

Alon Shabo: That’s typically baked into a lot of offers. Some people think it’s kind of unethical or fake “scarcity.” It’s like, there’s levels and it depends what kind of marketer you are and what kind of business person you are.

Nehal Kazim: At that point, this was sold in person, right? So, they got a physical letter at the event?

Alon Shabo: Yup.

Nehal Kazim: Okay, so they got a physical letter, and then how do people actually redeem or claim their spot?

Alon Shabo: We already have their credit card information and payment stuff on file, which is … I’ll just back track, it’s also why sometimes we charge money for webinars, just to attend, because it’s much easier to, if we’re selling something on the webinar, just get the okay from someone on the phone and say, “okay, we’re gonna charge you.” But, we already have their information and the offer just glides them through to a check this box, sign right here, confirm a few details and we bill them.
I think, usually, in those cases, people get swept up in the motions and they may regret it later. We did have a few refunds like that. They were just in the moment, but the majority went well. Just back to a good sales letter, there’s no frickin’ friction, right? If I was like, “Enter all your credit card details here,” that creates friction. It gives people reasons to start doubting things. But, if it flows, it sucks you in, starts painting a picture, all your designs are flowing and then it starts reaffirming your beliefs and letting you know this is legit and just kind of quelling your doubts while you’re reading it, but not directly, because you never want to trigger somebody’s, “Oh shit, someone’s trying the same move.”
The best advertisements don’t look like advertisements.

Nehal Kazim: Right.
Alon Shabo: So, it just flows, check this box, yes I would like to attend, sign some things and that’s it. Yes, I authorize you, please charge me $12,000, that’s about it. I’ll attach it to the PDF. It’s everything. The forms are on it, check box, all that stuff.

Nehal Kazim: Perfect. So, if you’re listening to this, if you go to, we’ll make sure to give access to that in the group and so we’ll put it in there. So, when people are going through this process, so they get a letter and then they are signing a document, or maybe it’s digital, and so they’re saying yes and that’s it, right? There’s not a sales process, per se. They’re already emotionally at a peak. They’re at the event. They see an offer and they just claim it. Is that right?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, pretty much. For live events, you always want to get people at peak excitement, so sometimes we would schedule … this happened during the kind of salesy part, the kind of pitch part of the converse, but right before we scheduled the peak emotionally experience, just so people are feeling good, and you see this at conferences when you have people, “Come on guys, let’s stretch. Come on, let’s jump around.” It to elicit positive emotions, because nobody wants to buy something if they’re bored and tired and dehydrated and hungry.

Nehal Kazim: Right, I got you.

Alon Shabo: Nobody likes to buy a negative space, unless you’re selling something to fix their problem.

Nehal Kazim: Right, but even then, if you can paint that pain and the gap and then actually show them that it’s possible and give them an offer at that point, it’s a lot easier.

Alon Shabo: For those kind of offers, I think it’s totally understanding. It’s like, “I understand you. Let me explain this in your shoes so you can be like, ‘oh, you get me, that’s exactly what I’m going through.'” Because, that’s the biggest disconnect, when your ad is not genuine and someone is like, “This guy doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about.” I see weight loss … I see ads targeting gym bros and I’m like, “Dude, no gym bro talks like that.” It’s alien to them, you know?

Nehal Kazim: Right. So, can you walk through the numbers, just so it’s clear to people if they were to do an offer like this or just based off the results that you got, how many people were at an event at that point and then how many people took up the offer? I’m just going through the document you sent here as well.

Alon Shabo: Let me pull up the details because this was years ago and I didn’t think we were going to dive that deep into it.

Nehal Kazim: No worries.

Alon Shabo: I think this was 2016.

Nehal Kazim: Yeah, I 45 paying members at an event. Is that right?

Alon Shabo: Okay, got it. Yup. So, there was 45 people and 34 of them ended up accepting the offer, so something like 75% of people. So, that generated 408,000. Just for marketing sake, I would say in an hour, less than an hour, because we handed them out and we said, “If you’re in, please bring them to the front,” which also probably helped the sales process. Kind of like if you’re seeing all these guys excited like, “Yes. I’m in, I’m in.” And you’re sitting in your chair like, “Oh, well,” that’s the best social proof you can have. Every marketer uses social proof.
When you see a stampede of people, that triggers the most Robert Cialdini like influence principal. It’s like, “I want to go where the herd is.”

Nehal Kazim: Right, for sure.

Alon Shabo: “I’m gonna go stand in line with them.”

Nehal Kazim: It’s easier to make a decision, for sure.

Alon Shabo: Absolutely.

Nehal Kazim: So, with this type of offer, you’re mentioning that you can use this over and over again, and so, even from the next event, I don’t know how frequent these events were, but is that something that was easy to implement?

Alon Shabo: Yeah, this letter gets run annually and now the business model [inaudible] changed. So, for example, we understand and the baseline of about 75% conversion, it’s held up as far as I know, but I don’t know from this year because I don’t work with that company any more. But, it just changed the model, because it goes from a front end sales worth 1,000 to front end sales probably worth 12,000 for seven out of 10 leads. So, that kind of planning helped with our ad budgets and we could spend more. It got to the point where I’m like, “Dude, even if we’re spending 1,000 to get a customer to our events,” which was never the case, it was always much cheaper, “even if we break even on that acquisition, some of them are going to convert into annual members.”

Nehal Kazim: Right.

Alon Shabo: It just gave us a much better business model with bigger margins and just more room to operate, which I think every business should have. Like what I’m doing with eCommerce right now, sometimes I pay affiliates so much so we’re losing money on the front end, but I’m like okay, the typical customers spending like $800 with us, so it doesn’t matter if I use $50 to get a customer.

Nehal Kazim: Right. Got it. So, for people who have an information business or coaching business, what would be your recommendation to them when going through this process of adding a new high ticket offer?

Alon Shabo: Understand your customers, talk to them, survey as many as you can. Get in bed with them, really. Just find out how to make it much better for them.

Nehal Kazim: Right.

Alon Shabo: [crosstalk] of what they say.

Nehal Kazim: What we’ll do is we’ll add the questions that you had, because I think just going through different types of questions just to pull out the truth, or closest thing to the truth, from them and then reading between the lines, like you were saying, that goes such a long way in actually figuring out who they are in reality.

Alon Shabo: Yeah.

Nehal Kazim: Otherwise, you’re just making assumptions off of troll comments on Facebook or random emails that you get instead of a controlled environment where you can filter the input and then decide on what the actual output is.

Alon Shabo: Well, those seven questions will bring you a lot of insight into your business, not just for introducing [inaudible] to give more value, but just to figure out where you may have some issues with your perception, marketplace or positioning.

Nehal Kazim: Perfect. Awesome Alon. Where can people find you if they want to reach out or get in touch with you?

Alon Shabo: Facebook is the best. I don’t do any marketing services work anymore, but I have been playing with the idea of working with one person if they’re fucking awesome, that’s basically the prerequisite. So, just hit me up on Facebook, I’m sure my name will be linked or something. I’m not going to be like, “WWW. …” that’s so 2005, huh?

Nehal Kazim: That’s funny. Yeah, you’re already tagged in the Facebook group and I don’t know how many more Alon Shabo’s there are.

Alon Shabo: There’s one. He’s like a famous chef. He’s kind of ranking on SEO better than me.

Nehal Kazim: We’ll have to fix that. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you jumping on and I will see you guys on the next one.

Alon Shabo: Alright, bye Nehal.

How A Webinar Offer Generated $79,800+ With $9,327 Spent on Facebook Ads

By | case-study

Want to know how Amplifii generated a 856% return on ad spend?

Imagine spending $1 on Facebook ads and then actually getting $8.56… within 90 days.

Most entrepreneurs and marketing teams I speak to would LOVE getting $1 back for every $1 they spend on Facebook.

But for this client, we didn’t just spend $1 and get $8.56 back.

We also generated leads 48,111 leads in the first 90 days of 2017.

Before working with Amplifii, this client had a list of 14,442. Generating this many leads, this actually caused new problems that the client never faced (more on that in a bit).

We also reached millions of peoples with highly engaging ads (5.32% click through rates) which introduced them to the brand and the face of the brand.

I could keep going, but today, here’s what I want to show you:

  • Strategic changes we made with Facebook ads to decrease cost per lead by up to 82.8%
  • How to get each person on a team focused on their specialities
  • These adjustments leading to be independent of affiliates
  • All the new problems we created by growing a business quickly (I love me some new problems!)

Let’s do it!

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